S2 Ep 8 - Behind the Scenes of Inflight Entertainment at El Al, Israel’s Flag Carrier

Go behind the scenes of the inflight entertainment and connectivity (IFEC) strategy of a 5 star global airline with Tal Kalderon, Head of Inflight Entertainment and Connectivity at El Al, the flag carrier of Israel.

A true veteran of the IFE world, Tal shares his fascinating journey from his early beginnings in the television industry to spending the past 20 years transforming the passenger experience at El Al.

Tal gives an inside look at El Al’s evolving fleet, the key decisions shaping its IFE strategy, the challenges of planning for aircraft deliveries years in advance, and his perspective on the ongoing debate of wireless vs. seatback inflight entertainment. He also weighs in on the rising buzz around Starlink, LEO satellite technology, and how these innovations could impact the future of inflight connectivity.

Explore El Al’s approach to strategic content partnerships, the curation of onboard entertainment, and how different generations engage with inflight entertainment. Tal shares what his passengers truly expect in today’s travel experience and how those expectations are evolving fast.

And these days, no conversation about IFEC is complete without diving into AI, and the future of personalization in the cabin. Tal offers candid insights on AI’s current limitations, and why personalization must always be opt-in, never intrusive. 

The discussion also looks at the influence of platforms like TikTok, Chat GPT and how they’ve reshaped the way people think about privacy, data sharing, and the kind of digital experiences they now expect, even in the sky.

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This episode of On Your Flight Today is brought to you by IFECtiv, an inflight entertainment and connectivity consulting company. Dedicated to elevating the aviation industry's inflight entertainment products and experiences for airlines and suppliers. Visit www.IFECtiv.aero to learn more!

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Transcript

This transcript was created using speech recognition software. Even though it has been reviewed by a human, it may contain errors. Please review the audio for the episode and use that as the guide before quoting from this episode or transcript. This text may not be published online or distributed without written permission. Feel free to contact the team at ‘On your flight today’ with any questions. 

The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of On Your Flight Today, its host, IFECtiv LLC or affiliates. The content provided is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be construed as professional advice. On Your Flight Today does not verify the accuracy of statements made by guests and assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content.

On Your Flight Today – Season 2, Episode 8 – Behind-the-scenes of El Al’s Inflight Entertainment 

Live Date: 31 March 2025 

Host: Corinne Streichert 

Guest: Tal Kalderon, El Al 

In today’s episode we take you behind the scenes of the inflight entertainment and connectivity (IFEC) strategy of a 5 star global airline. I’m joined by Tal Kalderon, Head of Inflight Entertainment and Connectivity at El Al, the flag carrier of Israel.

A true veteran of the IFE world, Tal shares his fascinating journey from his early beginnings in the television industry to spending the past 20 years transforming the passenger experience at El Al.

In our conversation, Tal gives an inside look at El Al’s evolving fleet, the key decisions shaping its IFE strategy, the challenges of planning for aircraft deliveries years in advance, and his perspective on the ongoing debate of wireless vs. seatback inflight entertainment. He also weighs in on the rising buzz around Starlink, LEO satellite technology, and how these innovations could impact the future of inflight connectivity.

We explore El Al’s approach to strategic content partnerships, the curation of onboard entertainment, and how different generations engage with inflight entertainment. Tal shares what his passengers truly expect in today’s travel experience and how those expectations are evolving fast.

And these days, no conversation about IFEC is complete without diving into AI, and the future of personalization in the cabin. Tal offers candid insights on AI’s current limitations, and why personalization must always be opt-in, never intrusive. We discuss the influence of platforms like TikTok, Chat GPT and how they’ve reshaped the way people think about privacy, data sharing, and the kind of digital experiences they now expect, even in the sky.

Let’s go!

Corinne: Tal. How are you today?

Tal: Thank you Corinne. Thank you for hosting me.

Corinne: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate you taking the time out. I know you've got a busy schedule, and I know there's a lot of exciting things going on at, uh, El Al, but really appreciate you taking the time. So let's just dive right into it. I've got so many questions. I know there's a lot of exciting things going on and really, you know, thrilled that you're willing to come on and share before we get into kind of geek out on all I, all things. I think I know we've both been in the industry for, for quite a long time and very passionate about it. For my audience, can you share a little bit of information about your background in in aviation and how you got into it and how you got to your current position at El Al heading up inflight entertainment and connectivity?

Tal: I reached El Al before something like 20 years is, uh, it was like a content consultant, but, uh, El Al asked me to to improve the IFE experience. And let's remember that it was that the cassettes period, which is a crazy period for even for that time because we were all already on the digital generation, but El Al was still with the cassettes. So I think my, my first mission was to, to change the, the cassettes to the digital experience. And the funny thing was that I arrived to El Al from, from the TV industry and, uh, and the first thing that I said to the, to, to, to the engineers is that, guys, we need to remove the cassettes and to move to the digital experience. So they told me, oh, we are already there. Don't worry, we are already there. It will happen very fast. I said, okay, I came from the TV industry and we are saying very fast, especially in news. It's a matter of seconds. So just let me know how long it will take. So. Oh, it will be very fast, something like three years. I said okay, three years. It's a bit. It's a bit different from the TV industry. It's quite long, but it took three years and we moved to the to the digital. And then I started to, to move from, uh, you know, ten movies and ten TV programs to more and more on to the VOD experience. And, uh, actually, I came to El Al and I said, okay, I will come for something like 3 or 4 years just for one project, and then I will move to another project uh, back to the TV industry. But, uh, I really fall in love in the in the aviation industry, as you can see, 20 years after, almost 20 years after, uh, with some with systems like, uh, 2000 hours of content and IFEC and the best of the IFE industry. Uh, I'm still here, and I really like what I'm doing.

Corinne: Yeah, I think that happens to to a lot of us, we come into this industry thinking, oh, a few years, explore it, try it out. And then 20 years later, we're still here because we just love it. So totally understand where you're coming from.

Tal: So kind of virus we can we must admit it's a kind of a virus for good and for bad.

Corinne: Yeah, yeah, definitely a bug. And once you get bitten by it, that's it. But I'm just curious if you want to share. So what were you doing in television?

Tal: Uh, it was a it was a TV director and the producer, and I was 15 years on the TV industry, so. And they really like it. It was the dream of my life. I really wanted to be part of the TV industry, and I really liked it. And I was quite surprised when the airline asked me to come and to join and to try to to do something that I never did. I was not familiar with the aviation, and it was quite a challenge. And it was an adventure to get into this industry and to learn what I know.

Corinne: When they brought you into El Al, were you looking at also producing content for the airline, or it was just your understanding, your connections and your network within the industry? Did you get the opportunity to create anything for them?

Tal: Actually, my my main idea was not to create. It was to to cooperate or to collaborate with my colleagues in the industry. And this is what I'm doing until today. We have a lot of local content on board, and the passengers so liked it. And I have so many collaborations with local content providers, so we're not creating content for for the passengers. I prefer to to collaborate me with the leading content provider in Israel. It brings an amazing content packages for for our passengers. So so it works and it will score very well.

[Double Chime]

Corinne: On the topic of content, I'm just going to jump ahead to a question that I had for later on. But you know, I think it's relevant now. So I did read recently El Al signed an agreement with HOT, one of Israel's leading content providers. How does that fit into your strategy of collaboration and what what are they bringing to your fleet?

Tal: Yeah, as I said, the Israeli passengers really like the local content. And we have a very good local content. We have dramas, we have sitcoms with the movies, and the passengers really liked it. And, you know, when you're passengers, when you know that your passengers like kind of content, you will do whatever you need to do to, to bring it to on board. And that's what we did. HOT is one of the leading content providers in Israel. It's one of the biggest ones, was quite clear for us that we need them on board. We have some more content providers channels, more TV channels that are on board as well. We are really trying to do our best to bring the best local content to on board. And actually the most of the content providers really like to be on board. It's, you know, it's a kind of win win because they feel that it promotes them, and it's an opportunity to be exposed to an audience that are not exposed yet to their content. So we really like those collaboration and we keep providing them more and more at the end. The passenger really enjoyed it, so the and the heart is really part of it. By the way, I my first station in my career was in HOT. Yeah, but there is no any connection to to this collaboration because it was really before many, many, many, many years. But there is kind of emotion when when you get them on board. And yeah, we are we start an amazing collaboration with them and we are really happy with it.

Corinne: So in terms of your content partnerships, are you usually dealing directly with the distributors, or do you have a content service provider that you know supports you in that, or they support you in the other areas of IFEC to get it to the aircraft?

Tal: All what related to the local content, I'm doing it myself without our CSP, our CSPs have enough work to do with the international, the American and the majors and whatever. But yeah, I feel much better and I'm much comfortable to do it myself. I have the right relationship with all of them, with most of them. So it's much easier for me to to deal with them direct.

[Double Chime]

Corinne: So let's talk about your fleet. So El Al operates an all Boeing fleet including Dreamliners, 777, 737s. Can you provide an overview of your current in-flight entertainment and connectivity offerings across these aircraft. I'm assuming your Dreamliner has the latest and greatest, but can you just share with that audience high level overview of your fleet?

Tal: As of now, we based on, uh, we are based first of all on Boeing fleet. But we have uh, we have only two kinds, which is 787 and 737, uh, which is uh, for me, it's kind of an ideal because I remember, period, that we have much more kinds of, uh, fleets with it, much more IFE system. I remember a time that I managed something like eight kind of IFE systems, different systems. And as of now, we have already already just three and and IFC. So it's much easier for me as of now for the widebody, for the 787 we have seatback you the Panasonic eX3. I really like it because it's a very friendly system for the passenger, and the passenger really liked it, and we are already working on a new UI. We will talk about it maybe later. And on the narrowbody we have the wireless IFE which it's less popular according to my opinion. But this is kind of a must that you you have on board the passenger don't really like the the wireless IFE. It's actually it depends part of them, especially the young ones look it like almost an obvious they are quite familiar to connect it using the personal devices. So it's quite easy for them to to use it and to connect. The problem is with the elders one, which they are not very familiar with it. They they facing some difficulties to to connect and to use it in general. We all know that most of the passengers are used to have used the, the seatback screens, and they expect from the airline to provide them the full experience. Many of them are not expect from the airline to ask them to use their personal devices. This is something quite new for them. It's something that's not very popular in airlines that are not low cost, low for those. For the low cost carriers, it can be a very good for a solution because the expectation, the passenger expectation is with the same level. But when you need to provide a better experience or a high experience for the passengers, they expect to get the whole package from you. They are not expecting that the airline will ask them to to bring their own device and to use it. Having said that, we have quite a high level of passengers that connect to the system and we are really proud of it. Although if I would have another choice, I think that I would prefer to get rid of the wireless IFE and change it to seatback.

Corinne: We're saying that obviously in the US, you know, Delta's got seatback everywhere. United announced it 4 or 5 years ago. I just wanted to ask, are you able to share who your wireless IFE provider is or you can't? And that's fine if you can't.

Tal: Uh, we have two. We are using Bluebox and you are using Viasat and all the aircraft that we install, the Varsity internet system. It includes streaming server, so it's much more comfortable to us to use it. And on the aircraft that we don't have IFC as well yet. So we are using the Blue Box solution.

Corinne: Oh, okay. So you really feel when it comes to wireless, if it's really a generational behavior in terms of the younger people tend to go and stream and feel comfortable using it. Whereas the older generation, who probably I know mobile devices have been around for a while, but, you know, some people do struggle with it. And so you really feel that it is more popular amongst the youth than it is with the older generation.

Tal: I don't think the, that the the word popular is the right word. I think that the even the the youngest one, they would prefer to have seatback, but there are it's much more comfortable for them to use it. Okay, okay. There they are quite familiar with it. They're using it on a daily basis. They connect it to other streaming websites. So it's quite easy for them. The eldest one, they are not in the same situation and especially the ones that are flying with us for a very long period. And they used to have seatbacks on the long haul flights. So they would. And even if they flew with the narrowbody we had in the past, we had the main screen, you know, the overhead. But as of now, we don't have we we are not screening content anymore on the overhead. It's only the the wireless IFE. And they really don't like it. They would prefer to watch movie or content on the even on the overhead rather than their personal devices. So yeah, it's quite challenging. We are doing our best to convince them with the time we feel that it's getting better. But still, if I need to choose between wireless IFE and seatback, I'm still in the old generation.

Corinne: There's so much on this topic. A lot of people have predicted the death of seatback IFE when wireless IFE started coming out and connectivity. But one thing I remember I always used to say when we were talking about wireless IFE a few years ago in particular, and I still think it applies to today when you go to a whether it's a three star, four star, five star hotel, when you walk into your room, you expect to have a television there. You don't expect to be streaming content in a hotel. And I always felt that expectation was something that passengers would always have to have that seat back as well. Just like it's similar to getting on a plane, You expect the screen to be there. Like you go to a hotel, you expect them to provide you a TV. Do you agree with that?

Tal: Yes and no. And I'll tell you why. Because if I'm trying to think about all my hotel visits when I in the last few years, I don't remember that I watched TV or I watched the TV channels. I used the TV just for, you know, for pairing with my computer or my streaming devices that I have just to watch the content that I really like. I didn't watch the TV channel, but yeah, this is something that the passengers and me expect to have at the hotel. I'm not expecting to come to the hotel, especially, as you said, not 4 or 5 stars, and not to find the TV in my room exactly as the passenger expecting to find a seatback screen, especially on the long haul flights. They are not expecting us to ask them to bring their own device and to use it for 8 or 10 hours flight. And I totally understand them. I see that the wireless IFE is a temporary solution. I don't see it as a solution that the airline can rely on it. Economy wise, it makes sense. For the airline, it's much easier and much cheaper to use wireless IFE for sure. Its much cheaper than the the seatback, but for the passengers, and we are in charge on the passenger experience, I think that our duty is to come to the airline and say, look, if you would like the passenger experience will be great, not less than it. We need to provide them the most that we can, that the experience will be great. And as I see it now, it should be set back.

Corinne: Wow. So even for short haul flights or regional flights, you wouldn't want to do wireless if you don't think it has its place there?

Tal: In theory, you're right. In theory, you're right. Even in the short haul. I would recommend to the airline, although I know it's quite unique. We all know that most of the fleets that are flying short all has a or a wireless EFI or any other solution, but not sit back and we can understand the airlines why this is the situation. But again, if I'm going back to the customer experience side of course that I would like the the passenger will get the best and the most, which is for my opinion is the seatback.

Corinne: I think if the airline is all about passenger experience and they're serious about it, you need to give that experience. And I kind of agree that seatback needs to be there as well, you know, and I'm sure the vendors will be very happy to hear this. You know.

Tal: I no doubt.

Corinne: But no, it's a great product and I think it's an expectation. And, you know, years ago and I'm sure we were at the same conferences where people were getting up and saying, seat back IFE is going to die, it's going to die. I don't think it will. I don't think it will. And, you know, for the reasons that you've you've stated as well, and I know it might be different in different parts of the world, but I think in general there is a passenger expectation. They pay a lot of money to come on the plane, and they expect an experience not having to pull their device out, which in the US people are connected on their device multitasking, you know, social media and all that kind of stuff. And you got your screen going and you're following your movie. I think, that's kind of the experience that that people are expecting, which you kind of do at home as well. A lot of people do it at home. They've got the TV going there on their mobile phone. So I think a lot of food for thought there for airlines.

[Double Chime] 

Tal: My opinion is that the passenger expect to get, if not the same, the closest experience that they have at home. They expect to get it on board as well. Of course, that we cannot provide it one by one, but if we can provide them close as much as possible, experience that they have at home, like almost smart TV, that they can connect even the connectivity to the the seatback screen. This is something that I'm sure that it will happen. Free Wi-Fi. I am sure that it's something that will happen. Wide range of variety of content. We are trying to do our best. Just see the screen quality 4K, QLED. It's something that we are getting there and this is exactly what the passenger expect. We cannot think about the old screens that we have before ten years to be relevant. As of now, we can see exactly what is the industry, how the industry is getting to the screens market. And when you see that QLED is the next generation or almost the current generation, you know that you need to be there if you would like to be in the competition.  And this is the this is the passenger expectation. We expect to have the same experience or very close to the experience that he has at home.

Corinne: I agree as well. I think expectations are increasing more than ever. And I think it's as challenging for airlines. Obviously you know how long it takes to get stuff to put on a plane and, you know, the decision making process that's involved behind that. But I definitely agree. I think that is the future. I just wanted to clarify one point. So El Al no longer has triple sevens in the fleet?

Tal: No we have we have triple sevens as well. We retrofit the 777. We already they were already retrofitted. And they are according to the cabin. They look exactly the same like this 787 with the same. With the same IFE with the same everything.

Corinne: Oh, okay. And your internet provider, as you said, is Viasat. That's on your 787, 777 and 737. Oh, okay. 

[Double Chime]

Corinne: So on the topic of personalization, everybody's talking about it. It's every industry conference, every panel. There's a topic about personalization. You've said that personalization is playing a very important role in inflight entertainment and the future of in-flight entertainment. In the probably next 5 to 10 years, how much do you feel personalization will evolve and what will it bring?

Tal: Yeah, it's a we all know it's quite a complicated issue. And but because from one side, as I said, in essence, I'm saying all the time the passenger expect to have the same experience that he has at home. And when he is sitting at home and when he's using, for example, Netflix, Netflix knows exactly what he expects to watch. It's the main feature and the basic feature of personalization that the system will know what the what your passenger would like to watch. Now, if the passenger wants that, the system will know it and the system will have the information. He will be able to choose itself. When he will get into the system, he can choose what kind of privacy he would like to have, and he have all the options that you can choose if you would like to have them or not. If he would like that his name will appear on the screen or not. If he would like that, we will collect the data of what he watched and what he what he bought and whatever this is for, for his decision. We cannot force him and we are not planning to do so. But we would like the the system will have the option to offer it, because I'm sure that many of the passengers like the the system will offer them the best content that is on board, rather than to go through all the hundreds or thousands of hours and to try to to find what is relevant for him to watch and what is not. And if the system can get this information and know to offer him what is the best content that he would like to see. This is a thing great thing as well as according to to shopping. If we can offer him to to shop duty free or to shop other products and the system will learn what he would like to buy or what is his preferences, and to offer him the relevant items for him. I am sure that many passengers will be very happy with it, and if the system has the option to remind him that there is something in his cart that he didn't pay yet and he did not forget it, and if he really like it. And to remind him, what are the items that what are the options that he has to buy? Those are things that we would like the system will offer him. It will be his decision if he would like it or not.

Corinne: So in terms of personalization, when it comes to content, entertainment and shopping, there are great opportunities there. But taking personalization one step beyond. So in terms of it's your birthday, the system wishes you a happy birthday. The system knows what you like to drink, what you like to eat. Do you see it going to that level? And if you do, do you see a challenge in getting it right? In terms of and the reason why I'm saying this, I had Mark Cheyney on from the IAG group talking about personalization, and he said one of the challenges that they faced was when, say, for example, you're flying, Tal is flying for business versus Tal flying for pleasure with your family. Right. So for business, you know, you might have you might only eat certain foods and drink certain drinks because you're focused, you're working in flight. But then when you're traveling with your family, you might be more adventurous with your food and beverages. So do you see that as being an issue in terms of identifying who's actually flying and what level and type of personalization to offer.

Tal: Again, we need to separate between the passengers and the airline. Of course, that as an airline, I would like to have as much as information about my passengers and about their plans to be prepared for the next flight. If I can improve the passenger experience through personalization data that I'm getting from the system. For me, it's great if I will know that this passenger will fly with us in a specific date, and I can offer him the food that he would like to have and his favorites drinks, Uh, rather than to just have a generic drinks, I'm sure that the passenger will be more than happy to find out that I really prepared myself to to his visit in my flight, but if the passenger would like that, I will collect all this data and keep it in my data. It's up to him. And that's why we give him the the opportunity to choose if you would like it or not. We will try to do our best to inform him what are the advantages of getting it. But we cannot force him.

Corinne: Yeah. I think, you know, privacy in different countries. It's I think it's going to be a completely different experience. And we know how privacy is within Europe with the with the GDPR in Europe, they're very particular about how personal information is held and stored. And in Israel, how is privacy viewed and is it a very sensitive topic in terms of people sharing information with airlines and other providers.

Tal: Yeah, we are under GDPR as well. It's really critical. So we really trying to follow the policy. And yeah, we know that there are a lot of limits and we will try to use what we can use. Again, it's most of it is the passenger decision. He will decide exactly what he would like to expose and what what we can keep and what what is not. But I can tell you that I'm sure that in every airline, especially the airline, that under GDPR there are departments that are in charge on on the policy and they are really force it on all of us. So we we of course, that we are working with them together as well as on on the modular interactive and they will be part of the project. They will give us the, the limits.

Corinne: As you said, it's really up to the customer if they're willing to offer all the information, they're willing to offer it, as long as you still do it legally and as per all the regulations. What was really interesting, and I just have to say this. So are you familiar with the app TikTok?

Tal: Yeah.

Corinne: It was banned in the US, I think, for about, I don't know, 24, 36 hours. Yeah, it was a really short period of time and it was really interesting because there's concern. Well, what we're reading about in the news and, you know, I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong, is that there was a security concern with the information that Americans were sharing through an app that was Chinese owned. That's my understanding of it. And so when it was banned, it caused a huge uproar. And I must admit, I TikTok a lot, I was disappointed, my husband TikToks. We were like really disappointed. But when it came back on, what was really interesting was that a lot of the people that were impacted, all these TikTokers were getting on TikTok saying, I don't care if China has my information, I don't care what they know about me. I just want a tick tock. And I thought that was pretty interesting in terms of privacy and personalization. But then you've got to think about it. You know, what kind of information is in TikTok. And I don't want to go down that rabbit hole of debating TikTok. And, you know, all it's what information is being shared. But it was just really interesting how nobody really cared. And the ones that love TikTok were happy to share that information. So you think there'll be a willingness for people to share information or not share information, especially in your part of the world?

Tal: This is the reality. We we cannot we probably we cannot change it. And this is it. It started with the old, uh, social networks, Facebook and Instagram and whatever. First of all, we are shared what we shared and we are doing it without any issues. I think that the problem is with the ones that share and use quite a weird content, let's call it like that. And if you are, if you are not part of them. So you really don't mind, uh, what information the Chinese will have about you. But let's talk about GPT that learns about you much more. I think that TikTok and all the other social networks, the GPT and this is we all know this is it's not the future, it's already the current period. And if you are using it and I'm sure that most of us are using it, he learned about you much more than all the other social networks include TikTok and include all the others. So what, you will not use it? You will use it because it's so helpful for us. And TikTok is so enjoyable for us, so why not to use it unless you are doing weird and crazy things through TikTok or whatever? So this is exactly my opinion. It's the same on board. We I think that it's that on board. It's much more sensitive because the things that the, the system can learn about the passenger is much more limited than the TikTok or other social networks. And the most of the things that the system can learn about the passengers on board is just to help the airline to make the service much better for for the passengers, they improve the experience. So but as I said, this is the reality and we can we cannot avoid it.

Corinne: So you raise a really great point. And I know, you know, time we're kind of running out of time. But I really want to talk about it because you said something fantastic there. Artificial intelligence ChatGPT. It knows more about you than what TikTok and China ever will. So this is a huge topic to unpack. I've had experiences. We're all using it in one way, shape or form. So using ChatGPT. There is a function where you can tell it not to learn from you, not to train the models. I have that switched on. I'm very limited in how I use it as well. But do you think that's going to be the next big kind of topic of debate? ChatGPT doesn't know what you like to watch, and that can be relevant only if you're trying to sell them something, someone, something. That's where I think that can be really valuable. You know, the taste and preferences are great for generating revenue, but I think ChatGPT gets into your mind, especially if you're asking it to write things for you or to design and draft. So I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Tal: Yeah, I'm a huge fan of, uh, chatGPT. I'm using it a lot, and that's why I feel that he learned about me so much. I'm not using TikTok like chatGPT I'm using it much more. And the information that I put on on ChatGPT is, is huge because it's a really great to I feel that it's really a great tool for me to use, not for everything, but in many, many parts of, uh, of my work. I don't feel that I'm using it in my private life so much. But during my work, yeah, I'm using it a lot. And and let's face it, through my questions and through my request, he can learn about the airline activity, my activity, the IFE activity. He knows exactly what we are going to do. Although I'm trying to be very sensitive and into something to ask in general and not specific, but he already knows exactly on which airline I am working, what is my role, what is my next project, and more and more and more information. Again, we cannot avoid it. It's just going to to be improved. I think that I don't touch in 10% of the GPT options and and for sure not the AI options which they are growing day by day. Yeah. But again this is the reality. This is the new generation. And we if we will not be there, we will not be there and we will stand behind. Yes, we need so we need to be there and to use it with limits. And the limits are something that we decide for ourselves. We just need to be more, to take the responsibility, to be a bit sensitive and to use it in the right way, and not to expose too much information and not to use it in a in the wrong way. We must use it. And for sure, this is something that I would like to have on my new modular interactive and to to use it for personalization and to use it as much as I can until someone will stop me.

Corinne: I'm glad you mentioned that because I have seen some AI in some IFE and I guess my question is from my experiences with AI. It's never been 100% accurate, especially for research. I'm always asking it about our in-flight entertainment to see if it knows the details and if it how much it knows. I have to say, a lot of the time it's inaccurate. When you ask it for sources, it will obviously quote some of the, you know, the leading aviation IFE journalists and you know, okay, so and then you get to know them and to be honest with you, some of them get it right all the time. Some of them I question what they write about. But I think in general I haven't found it to be as accurate, especially in in-flight entertainment. So you found that as well?

Tal: I agree with you and that's why you will not have it in the first phase I expect from, providers to provide a complete tool. And if it's not complete and not accurate, I prefer not to use it, because we all know that one of the main features that we need in, in IFC and in the user interface is the search option. And it's critical because when you have just ten movies on on your system, it's easy. But when you have thousands of hours and hundreds of movies and content, the passenger would like the search option, and would like to find whatever he's looking for. Now, the passenger will not search for a specific movie because this is easy. I can put all the movie titles on the search option, and you will find the fact that the movie easy. But the passenger will will search for funny movie, or for a romantic comedy, or a movie with John Cleese or whatever. He will ask as he is asking in Google. This is his search behavior and we would like to, we need to provide the same experience and the same option on our AI, because otherwise it will be useless. And so we need really to define a search option. And I know that our providers are working on it. I know it's not easy, it's quite complicated. But we will be there. We will be there. We all know that you cannot use a very simple search option. We need to develop a very sophisticated option that it will be very useful for the passengers.

Corinne: I agree, I think one of the big things to be mindful of though is the accuracy. And you know, we know software never goes out 100%, but I think it needs to be close to it to avoid it having hallucinations in flight, because I think that would just really kill the passenger experience. And I think even if it was to hallucinate, it won't just hallucinate at one seat, it will probably hallucinate in the whole cabin, depending on how your IFE set up in that aircraft as well. And that could ruin the whole flight experience. And then, you know, software updates and you know how that works. But it is really interesting. Everybody's talking about it. I'm in two camps. I mean, I definitely use it. It's helped me automate a lot of things that I do, especially as a really small business. Now I can just use AI to help me with a lot of things, but I never rely on it to write content because I know it is not correct. 

Tal: You cannot take it for granted even when it writes content for you. You need to go through it and to, uh, to to check all the wording and to see if exactly that's what you meant. Maybe he writes it in a better way, that you could write it before, but you must check it. Otherwise you would find yourself in a crazy situation. I already forced it.

Corinne: You know, it's funny you said that because I've read and you've probably seen this. Okay, we're connected on LinkedIn. I've seen some people out there and probably people not as close to the industry as we are, like maybe some other companies out there that are writing thought leadership pieces. And I've read it and I'm like, no, that's not how that works. And then, you know, you keep reading it and you see a common theme. I think I can tell when someone's used ChatGPT to write about IFEC. Do you think you can tell as well?

Tal: Sure. For sure.

Corinne: Yeah.

Tal: Yeah, yeah. Especially if you didn't check it and send it as it is.

Corinne: Yeah, there's a lot of that out there, unfortunately. And you know, what's really what's disappointing is I know that there is a lot of I've had a lot of younger people coming out of college that have reached out to me and said, how do I get in the field? How can I learn more about it? And they use ChatGPT to do their research. And my first, you know, comment to them is don't fact check everything. I mean, we have to fact check everything in the news today as well, you know, but you really need to fact check it and know that it probably isn't 100% accurate. Maybe over time, as more people write and put more factual information about IFEC they can make that publicly available, because everything's usually proprietary, but once that probably becomes more available, it might improve its accuracy. But for now, I think when it comes to IFEC, as you said,  don't rely on it and you can tell from a mile away. But, um, it's really interesting to see how this is going to go. And I don't think I don't think anyone knows we don't know what's coming out next week. Next. Yeah. There was that whole deep seek thing that happened just a few weeks ago competing with OpenAI. And you know, every day is a new day. I think the key is being able to adapt to it quickly. I think that's really important. 

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Corinne: Your 737 Maxs now, I understand there's a lot you can't say, and that's fine. But El Al announced last year an order of 737 Max's. So obviously you're working busily behind the scenes. Are you excited about that? The opportunities it can bring. And do you see that aircraft be obviously it's going to have more better screens, better entertainment. And also can I ask if you can share? Are you looking at Astrova?  And if you can't share that that's fine. But how do you see the future being incorporated into the new aircraft that are coming out?

Tal: First of all, it's always exciting to to work on your fleet, on your aircraft. I really like it because really you can you can start from scratch to create the passenger experience, which is really great, and the opportunity that they have to do it few times. It's always exciting to me again. And this is really. It's really the same. Now, we all know the shortage that the aviation has in aircraft and how long it takes to get a new fleet. The fact that we we managed to to get a new fleet of Max’s is something really exciting. Yeah, I cannot unfortunately, I cannot expose too much on what we are doing now because we are really, really in the middle of the process of defining what we are going to use and which system and how it's going to look. But I think that you could hear from the beginning that my opinion is passenger experience is to have a seatbacks, even on a narrowbody, if I manage to convince my management to do so. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But yeah, we are checking all the options and of course that we are dealing now with all the providers that are involved on it. As you can understand, in the next AIX, we are going to be very, very busy, especially on this topic. So, uh, unfortunately, this is what I can say about.

Corinne: That's fine. I've seen the announcement. I didn't know exactly where you were in that process. So you're now in the process of defining your strategy. One thing I think that a lot of people don't realize is, especially when it comes to new aircraft delivery, a lot of stuff is planned 3 or 4 years in advance. Right. And that can be a challenge itself, because you now have to look into your crystal ball and think, okay, in about, say, three, four years, that's on average when the new aircraft will arrive. What is that experience going to be like? And you're kind of selecting from roadmaps of products as well. So there is a bit of guessing to it, you know. And you do look at the underlying data, what you have, what you know, and also the strategy of where your business wants to go. So it's not an easy task as as you said, I'm sure AIX is going to be very, very busy because that's going to be your opportunity to see the latest and greatest in what's coming in the future.

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Corinne:  So you're going to AIX is there anything you're anything you're expecting to see more of or what are you expecting to kind of see in the IFEC zone at AIX?

Tal: AIX yeah, I will continue your, your sentence before it's so real when you say that. Yeah you are planning today and you will get the aircraft in something like 2 or 3 years from now. And you need to guess what will be the future and how it will look. Because not what do you know now? Because okay, now I would like to have the best system on board. Let's say Astrova. Okay, okay. I know that Astrova will be relevant even in something like 3 or 4 years from now, but I'm sure that there will be much more features on whatever, and you need to guess them now. And this is exactly what I said to my my management. I said, look, we really I promise you to do our best and to try to think what is, how it's going to look and what will what will be the best passenger experience. But I cannot promise you that it will be relevant or it will be relevant as now, in 2028 or even 2027. But this is this is the reality. Again, we cannot do nothing against it, but we are trying to do up to date as much as possible, and I'm trying to do it as well in the modular interactive. I know that the AI feature and you are working on it very hard. Fine. But the question is how it's going to look in 2027 when we will launch the system. Okay, then we cannot allow ourselves to to come up without it because it will be so relevant on that time, and it will be so obvious at that time that and we couldn't say we didn't know. We know that it's going to be very dominant, very relevant. So let's work on it now that when it will be ready for use, we will use it.

Corinne: I'm going to AIX as well. I expect to see everything AI built into it in one way, shape or form, whether it be content, software or hardware, it's going to be there.

Tal: And by the way, the fact that I saw before something like two years, the MI in the Panasonic booth and I said on that time, yes, I want it no matter when it will be available. But I know that this is the future. This is exactly what I'm trying to do to to look now in AIX, I will try to see again what are the next features. And as you can see, I'm not sure that in all the booth I can find it. But from this is exactly the point. I will go one by one and try to see what are the new things that will be available in something like 2 or 3 years from now, which probably this will be the future of the IFE what we have now. I know I'm very familiar with the industry and they know exactly what are the relevant system and, and what are the positions of every suppliers and every system. I'm trying to see what is the future and this is what I'm looking in the AIX.

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Corinne: I saw an interview you did recently where you talked about Starlink. Everybody's talking about Starlink. At one point, it seemed like every morning I'd wake up and I'd read in the news that they've won another airline. It was getting to that point. It's like, hang on a minute. Every day they're in the news, well not every day is a bit of exaggeration, but they were just starting, you know, they got United, Air France, the list goes on, right? So I know you're currently with Viasat, but in an interview you recently did, you said you're open to trying new things. I guess just in general, not looking for your strategy. You know, obviously, you know, it's confidential. But how do you feel about LEO and how do you think about Starlink disrupting the IFEC industry?

Tal: I can tell you that before something like, I think five years or something like that, I was in, in, in a conference in Paris that spoke about satellites or, and connectivity on board and whatever. And everybody's spoken about Starlink in kind of awareness. What is this weird company that offer free WiFi? And nobody understood what they are planning to do, and some of them even love. Who will pay for this technology and whatever? And here we are, something like five years after. And they are very relevant, very dominant. Okay, we know that they did all what they can to get into this market. Now, as I said in my interview on the paper, the technology looks great. How it will work when hundreds and thousands of aircraft will be using this technology. Nobody knows yet. Again, I am sure that they will do whatever they need to do, that it will work properly, but it looks that the technology is really, really great and work in the right way compared to GEO compared to other technology. To tell you something, I don't think that it's relevant because like El Al, there are many other airlines that already installed the GEO technology. And I'm sure that all of them like us asking the question, well, now what in every new technology will need to change the equipment and we changed to install it again and whatever. We all know the cost and we all know the meanings, just the matter of the grounding time of doing it. For us, it's really critical. But I think that the option of multi orbit technology and to develop an antenna that will be able to use, I don't know if all the technology, but the relevant ones, I think that this is the solution that most of the airlines are expecting. I don't think that the airlines are planning to move from technology to technology every few years. It's doesn't make sense. Yeah, but it looks and you said it in the right way. We didn't expect that the technology will run so fast and will be changed so fast. But again, this is the reality. The potential is great and we all expecting that the technology will be like what the LEO is promising, and if it will be like that, all of us will be more than happy. The question is how we will adopt it and how we will install it on our fleets. This is our challenges.

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Corinne: So, Tal, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show. I appreciate your transparency, openness and sharing what you can about what you're doing, and I wish you all the best. And I get very excited to see what you have coming out.

Tal: Thank you very much. It was really a pleasure. It's always a pleasure to discuss with you about the industry. It's it's fascinating for, I think for both of us. And see you in AIX.

Corinne: Yes for sure for sure. Looking forward to it.